Great DRM Protection

[Politis]

@Zamros:

First, my comparison was completely relevant, they are both forms of free advertising, and it isn't rare, I see it happen all the time, they like what they hear/see and buy it and give the money that the creators deserve, some people, even pirates *gasp* actually have moral values and won't download just to download...

Second, it's not about punishing or boycotting the creator, it's the publisher I dislike, a lot of developers actually do make good games, and deserve the money they do get, and I will pay even if I do have to suffer the publisher's drm, ("most" of my money though, is probably going to the publisher, sadly) will but for the most part today most games are not worth it. I agree with you on many parts zamros, I just have some opinions that are different from yours. (that doesn't make any of my opinions better though)

I am a honest customer for the most part, I rarely ever pirate stuff if I don't need too, in fact it's been a long while since I've actually pirated anything, I'm just defending it, it's not as bad as you might actually think.

Now let's both stop fighting, I blame myself for this to be honest, but let's both be honest, we both have better things to do, like you could be making that lets play. 

[Astindan]

^Trying to get out of being shown how stupid his argument was.

[Politis]

^Trying to get out of being shown how stupid his argument was.

Not really, I just feel and I've made my point and have nothing else to say, that is all.

[Zamros]

First, my comparison was completely relevant, they are both forms of free advertising, and it isn't rare, I see it happen all the time, they like what they hear/see and buy it and give the money that the creators deserve, some people, even pirates *gasp* actually have moral values and won't download just to download...

There's probably only one person I know that actually buys games after pirating it. And even then, he only does it if the game doesn't have a demo.
Also, there is a difference between pirating on release, waiting till it drops in price, then buying it.
I also find it horrible that people will play through the whole game, find a flaw then not buy it.

I only agree with the model "Pirate then buy it" if the game doesn't have a demo and they don't pirate it on release.

You find most pirates just make up releases. Remember that pirating is people re-distributing a game WITHOUT the IP owners permission (Don't say let's plays again, you are watching someone's reaction for half an hour). If the Original IP owner supports pirated versions of a game, then cool, but if not then the people pirating are just taking future cash out of the developers' future wallet.

[Astindan]

Also to add on, I agree with piracy with games that don't even get localized or are almost impossible to get a hold of.  Such as Xenoblade chronicles before the announcement of western localization.

[Politis]

There's probably only one person I know that actually buys games after pirating it. And even then, he only does it if the game doesn't have a demo.
Also, there is a difference between pirating on release, waiting till it drops in price, then buying it.
I also find it horrible that people will play through the whole game, find a flaw then not buy it.

I only agree with the model "Pirate then buy it" if the game doesn't have a demo and they don't pirate it on release.

You find most pirates just make up releases. Remember that pirating is people re-distributing a game WITHOUT the IP owners permission (Don't say let's plays again, you are watching someone's reaction for half an hour). If the Original IP owner supports pirated versions of a game, then cool, but if not then the people pirating are just taking future cash out of the developers' future wallet.

You are actually completely right in saying that Zamros, but honestly though, I don't think it makes a difference if some people pirate a game, the developers  are still making a crap load of money, pirates are still going to pirate, but the funny thing is piracy doesn't actually happen unless the game developers fight against piracy, kind of funny how that works to be honest. I'm not trying to pick sides, I disagree with some parts of piracy and other parts, I don't.

I'm trying to agree with you zamros (and add a bit of my views) but you keep fighting with me and saying I'm wrong, do you think you are wrong yourself?

[Zamros]

I don't think so. Pirating will always exist, no matter what developer it is. Hell, people actually pirate free games for some reason.
The two main reasons people pirate are

• Because it's free
• Because it's easy

The first one is never going to be tackled, because if someone can get something for free, they're not going to stop. Piracy is kind of addictive. And what sickens me is when people pirate stuff that they can still afford, but pirate anyway, just because they can.

The second one can only be tackled by providing a better service than the pirates. It's why a lot of pirates now use steam, or netflix, or iTunes.

[Politis]

I don't think so. Pirating will always exist, no matter what developer it is. Hell, people actually pirate free games for some reason.
The two main reasons people pirate are

• Because it's free
• Because it's easy

That is exactly what I said in my last post, just using different words.

The second one can only be tackled by providing a better service than the pirates. It's why a lot of pirates now use steam, or netflix, or iTunes.

Actually zamros, I think you will find, a lot of pirates do it do avoid "terrible" services such as those. All those services restrict the user and use extensive drm, and actually make things harder for the user. I still can't watch netflix because they refuse to let it work on platform that isn't windows or mac, I still can't share a cdrom with my friend if I would just want to play a quick game over lan if it's tied to my steam account, (I am in support of optional registering so I can still download it online, without all the nasty side effects of drm) and iTunes, well I guess we all know to problem with it.

These services have actually effected me in these ways so I try to avoid services like these, not automatically through piracy but just avoid buying stuff or using them in general.

[Zamros]

Actually zamros, I think you will find, a lot of pirates do it do avoid "terrible" services such as those. All those services restrict the user and use extensive drm, and actually make things harder for the user. I still can't watch netflix because they refuse to let it work on platform that isn't windows or mac, I still can't share a cdrom with my friend if I would just want to play a quick game over lan if it's tied to my steam account, (I am in support of optional registering so I can still download it online, without all the nasty side effects of drm) and iTunes, well I guess we all know to problem with it.

These services have actually effected me in these ways so I try to avoid services like these, not automatically through piracy but just avoid buying stuff or using them in general.

This issue only really comes up if the user has issues with DRM. The only issue I have ever found with any DRM is that I can't have a song I bought through iTunes on a different computer I'm logged into.
I'm not saying that these programs don't have problems, I'm saying that ex-pirates use them because they're actually easier than pirating.

As for the netflix thing (I'm assuming you're using Linux), Linux is a very small part of the demographic in Netflix's target market. It's not that they refuse to, it's that it wouldn't be in the company's best interest to cater to a demographic that isn't as large as Mac or Windows, when they could be improving the service they already have to generate repeat purchase.
Remember that Linux is greatly overshadowed by the two other OSes.

[Politis]

As for the netflix thing (I'm assuming you're using Linux), Linux is a very small part of the demographic in Netflix's target market. It's not that they refuse to, it's that it wouldn't be in the company's best interest to cater to a demographic that isn't as large as Mac or Windows, when they could be improving the service they already have to generate repeat purchase.
Remember that Linux is greatly overshadowed by the two other OSes.

Actually I'm using OpenBSD, but still, I've actually noticed linux is really starting to gain popularity, I'm starting to see more people with their Linux powered laptops then before. Point is Netflix has received thousands of letters, petitions, etc to drop drm and allow it to run on other platforms, and the thing is it's not a really hard thing to do, it's more out of stubbornness and fear that they refuse too. (they're afraid that linux and other platforms are too open)

[Zamros]

Actually I'm using OpenBSD, but still, I've actually noticed linux is really starting to gain popularity, I'm starting to see more people with their Linux powered laptops then before. Point is Netflix has received thousands of letters, petitions, etc to drop drm and allow it to run on other platforms, and the thing is it's not a really hard thing to do, it's more out of stubbornness and fear that they refuse too. (they're afraid that linux and other platforms are too open)

Nevertheless. Netflix as a company has to act in it's best interest. It might come as a surprise to you, but businesses start up to make money. The examples you are providing are most likely a vocal minority, and considering that they have Netflix working on Windows, Mac, PS3, Xbox 360 and some Blu Ray players. I'd say they are doing pretty well customer satisfaction wise.

It'll always be the case of "I CAN'T DO IT SO THE BUSINESS SHOULD CATER TO MEEEEEEEEEE!". Just look at why WoW is dying.

[Politis]

Actually I'm using OpenBSD, but still, I've actually noticed linux is really starting to gain popularity, I'm starting to see more people with their Linux powered laptops then before. Point is Netflix has received thousands of letters, petitions, etc to drop drm and allow it to run on other platforms, and the thing is it's not a really hard thing to do, it's more out of stubbornness and fear that they refuse too. (they're afraid that linux and other platforms are too open)

Nevertheless. Netflix as a company has to act in it's best interest. It might come as a surprise to you, but businesses start up to make money. The examples you are providing are most likely a vocal minority, and considering that they have Netflix working on Windows, Mac, PS3, Xbox 360 and some Blu Ray players. I'd say they are doing pretty well customer satisfaction wise.

It'll always be the case of "I CAN'T DO IT SO THE BUSINESS SHOULD CATER TO MEEEEEEEEEE!". Just look at why WoW is dying.

I know and you are right, but several users don't like it, yeah companies can do what they want, but it's pointless to make things hard on yourself, and have to work to port it to specific platforms when they could of just had everything ready from the get go. The problem lies where most people are incapable to use actual logic for once, Netfiix could of actually saved so much money if they just did that.

I given several examples (Including this) how companies could of avoided piracy, but this is why people pirate, and why we can't have nice things for once.

[Zamros]

I given several examples (Including this) how companies could of avoided piracy, but this is why people pirate, and why we can't have nice things for once.

No! The reason that people pirate is because they can! That's is pretty much the only reason people pirate to go along with that it's free and easy.
Piracy is never going to go away, and saying that companies can avoid it is just being ignorant.
Ever since there has been an opportunity to copy, there has been copyright piracy.

You are arguing with someone that not only has experience in Business and Management, Law and Music. But also understands what makes people tick.
Most people that do these things do it because they can. It's why people rioted in London, they didn't actually care about the government, or someone being shot. Most of those people didn't even know who was in power! Or the boy's name!
And it's the same with piracy, most people don't pirate because they want to "Get back at the greedy company". They do it because they want free stuff, and because they want an excuse not to pay for it.

I will come out and say, I have pirated in the past. But I don't give excuses to people for it. I'm straight up and say that I did it because I didn't want to pay for it.
I no longer pirate because I gained morals, and in future I want to get into Business and Management. And to do so, I need to keep an open mind by knowing that piracy can't be completely destroyed and that people's motivation behind it are selfish.
That is why people steal or pirate 90% of the time. There's no underlying conspiracy or reason, it's because Humans as a race are selfish.

Anyways, I wash my hands of your pointless, ridiculous arguments, that are filled with rhetoric and justification for people's selfish actions.

[Politis]

Zamros why do you repeat things both you and I have both said, I've never said you are wrong in fact I've agreed with you several times, I agree with both sides, yes piracy is bad in many areas but it is not completely immoral and yes I know some people do pirate because they can, you are right, I'll just say that even though it is pointless at this point, I know you don't agree with my opinions and that is fine, I've heard a quote somewhere "Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks."

Now let's just stop because honestly this thread isn't going anywhere, I respect your opinion, you don't have to respect mine.

[Astindan]

FUS RO DAH



Now stop the argument for now and back on the topic of funny drms and your opinions on them, or some you have found.  Piracy can be good or bad based on opinions.